We’re back with another edition of the Heavy MMA Roundtable. This week we talk Alistair Overeem, Jose Aldo, wrestlers in MMA, our dream grappling matchups, and which fighter we think brings the best smack talk. Be sure and let us know what you think in the comment section at the bottom of the page.
Your Panel:
Brett Jones: Feature Contributor, Heavy MMA
Nate Lawson: Staff Writer, Heavy MMA
Ryan Loco: Host of Loco Life; Staff Writer/Videographer, Heavy MMA
Spencer Kyte: Feature Writer, Heavy MMA
Matt Brown: Senior Editor, Heavy MMA
1. Alistair Overeem totally dominated Brett Rogers last weekend at Strikeforce: Heavy Artillery. Is he a top 10 heavyweight in your eyes? If not, would even a good showing against Fedor Emelianenko put him there?
Jones: Yes, but just barely. For me, rankings aren’t based on potential but on what a fighter has accomplished. Brett Rogers, my namesake, was the consensus 10th best Heavyweight before Overeem pummeled him, so Overeem takes over that spot by virtue of his victory. However, it’s not as though Overeem has beaten any other Heavyweights in the top 20 since his 2006 victory over Sergei Kharitonov, to whom he lost in a 2007 rematch. He’s obviously got the potential to be listed among the likes of Fedor Emeliananeko, Brock Lesnar, Shane Carwin, Cain Velasquez, and Junior dos Santos, but let’s not mistake potential for actual in-cage accomplishment.
Lawson: A victory over Brett Rogers is not the greatest accomplishment one can achieve in the sport, but Overeem was not challenged one time in that fight and looked completely unconcerned en route to his dominant knockout victory. He is definitely in my top ten and knocking on the door for a top five spot.
Loco: The way he absolutely made Brett Rogers look like he shouldn’t even be fighting in MMA definitely put Overeem on the map for me. If he goes in and takes out Fedor, he earns a top 5 spot in my mind. And then the whole “Overeem needs to fight UFC” campaign starts. No matter who wins, we’re gonna be begging for the winner to come into the octagon.
Kyte: Definitely. While he hasn’t faced a number of noteworthy competitors over the last couple years, the way he dominated Rogers solidified his standing in the Top 10. He would be a handful for the likes of “Minotauro” Nogueira or Frank Mir, two guys in everyone’s Top 10.
Brown: I think you really have no choice until he’s proven to be a sham. After Rogers destroyed Arlovski, he had moved into most people’s top 10. We all saw what happened last weekend to Mr. Rogers. I have Overeem sitting about 8th in my current top 10 heavyweights.
2. Rampage Jackson and Rashad Evans had one of the most epic pre-fight conference calls in the history of MMA. We know Heavy’s Spencer Kyte doesn’t like trash talk, but if you had to rank them, who is the best trash talker in the sport right now?
Jones: This is one of those questions where no matter what I answer I’ll feel like an idiot later for forgetting someone else. Maybe Phil Baroni, because the past five years or so of his career have been built almost entirely on his ability to talk trash. Some of the guys who amuse me with their trash talk are Rampage, Dan Hardy, Josh Koscheck, Frank Mir, and Brock Lesnar.
Lawson: Rampage and Rashad are certainly up there, but I wouldn’t give either the top spot. Frank Mir also understands how to hype a fight, even though he has crossed the line on occasion. But I have to give the top spot to Dan Hardy. The way he broke Marcus Davis down mentally before their bout was the work of a master.
Loco: Chael Sonnen is creeping up the list. BJ Penn is great at his very subtle jabs at people. Dan Hardy’s accent makes anything he says awesome. But Josh Koscheck secured his position at the top after his fight with Paul Daley, he had an entire country want to kill him.
Kyte: It’s not that I don’t like trash talk – it’s that there is too much unnecessary and hallow trash talk. These two have legitimate heat and that makes the trash talk meaningful. Plus they’re both entertaining as hell. King Mo is coming on strong and Rashad is doing well with the “Quittin” Jackson line right now, but Rampage is still the best in the business.
Brown: I’m feeling Chael Sonnen right now. He talks trash without all the yelling and childish comments. He just straight up bashes you as a human being with an articulate flair. That being said, Mo, Rampage, Rashad, Hardy, and Koscheck are all very entertaining. If you go outside of just fighters, then Dana White has to be up there. He can talk trash with the best of them.
3. Michael Schiavello wrote an article that got quite a bit of play in the MMA community. The article asked if wrestling was taking the martial arts out of mixed martial arts. What do you think? What are your thoughts on the upper echelon of wrestlers and their impact on the sport?
Jones: It sounds to me like Schiavello’s real problem is that wrestling does not entertain him. He’s hardly the only one of whom that’s true, but I think we should expect a greater respect for such an integral part of Mixed Martial Arts. Wrestling is, in fact, a martial art. I know there aren’t different color belts to earn in Wrestling and that the sport’s history doesn’t include any hint of eastern mysticism or ninjas but that neither disqualifies it as a martial art, nor as a viable discipline on which a Mixed Martial Artist can build his or her skill set.
Lawson: I do not feel wrestling is taking the martial arts out of MMA. It is simply the fact that wrestling is a way to neutralize an opponent who may hold a distinct advantage on the feet. Wrestling is a means to an end, and looking at Josh Koscheck, Cain Velasquez, Georges St. Pierre and the like, the result is usually a victory.
Loco: Wrestling is showing its dominance in MMA currently. But I think it all goes in cycles. For a while everyone was saying the BJJ guys were going to take everyone out. Don’t have a Muay Thai clinch? You’re screwed. Eventually we will see someone take out the wrestler, and then that will be the hotness. We can’t deny the fact that wrestling seems to be the most important facet of the game, as having great takedowns as well as a solid takedown defense can lead to a lot of victories. Toss in some stand up and BJJ? Game over son…the way these little kids are training now, we’re going to have complete packages in the next few years. Like, COMPLETE.
Kyte: Technically, wrestling is a martial art, just we only tend to think of the Asian fighting systems whenever we hear that phrase. The sport moves in cycles, and right now, wrestling is back in fashion and there are too many guys with too little defense for high-caliber takedown artists like GSP and King Mo. Both those guys, as well as other top wrestlers like Brock Lesnar and Jon Fitch, are forcing another evolution in the sport. They’re showing that you have to – HAVE TO – have good takedown defense, no matter how talented you are in other areas of the sport. Their dominance and talents will force everyone else to step their game up, and we’ll benefit by having better fighters and better fights in the future.
Brown: I’m a firm believer in doing what it takes to get a win. Wrestlers get a bad rap because of their style, but a win doubles your payday and in Koscheck’s case at UFC 113, earned him a title shot. They’re not pulling an Anderson Silva in there and clowning around. They’re doing what they do best. It’s up to everyone else to elevate their own game in order to compete. I don’t think top tier wrestlers are necessarily hurting MMA, but it’s no secret that the casual fan has very little tolerance for the style in the cage.
4. The UFC Fan Expo is next weekend and Zuffa announced several grappling superfights that will take place during the expo. Which two current MMA stars would you like to see in a grappling match? What about a boxing match?
Jones: For me, I’d like to see the same fighter in both a grappling and boxing match, and that’s B.J. Penn. Penn hasn’t done a ton of grappling since winning the Mundials in 2000 just a few weeks after earning his black belt in just three years of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu training. Off the top of my head, I’d like to see Penn fight Georges St. Pierre in the grappling match because I’m really interested to see if how their grappling would change without striking in play on any level. In the boxing match, I’d like to see him fight KJ Noons just because Noons is a professional boxer, though Penn has been described as the best striker in MMA by famed boxing trainer Freddie Roach.
Lawson: For a grappling match, I cannot think of a better pair than Jacare Souza and Demian Maia, two of the very best grapplers in MMA. In terms of a boxing match, I would Nick Diaz and Paul Daley. They each have their advantages in boxing and they would both talk trash in the ring.
Loco: I think a Demian Maia vs. BJ Penn grappling match would be a thing of beauty to watch. Heck, I’d pay money to see it. And everyone knows how cheap I am. As for boxing, it’s Tito vs. Dana. We’ve been waiting how long to see it? They owe it to us. I sat through that damn Spike special and got ZILCH.
Kyte: Maia and Jacare. They’re two of the guys we always mention as the top BJJ players in the sport, they fight and grapple in the same weight class and they need to be given a mat and an opportunity to determine who is the best. For boxing, Penn and Arlovski. Arlovski has always talked about how much he wants to try his hand at professional boxing, and BJ is one of the best technical boxers in MMA. Plus, we know he’s down for taking on guys who are out of his weight class.
Brown: For pure entertainment value, I’d love to see a Kimbo Slice and Houston Alexander rematch, grappling style. Two big brawlers not being able to throw kicks or punches. It think it’d be a riot. On the boxing side, a match between Shane Carwin and Cain Velasquez would really interest me. I like heavyweights and grew up on Mike Tyson knockouts. These two guys would certainly put on a show. I’d probably pay for that match.
5. Jose Aldo has proven to be one of the more dominating fighters in MMA today. If he were to move down to 135 and fight Dominick Cruz for the title, who would you take? What about if the UFC came calling and had him fight Frankie Edgar for the lightweight belt?
Jones: I have to pick Aldo against Cruz. I like Cruz a lot, but their common opponent is Urijah Faber, and while everyone knows how that went when Aldo fought him, Cruz lost in the second round. Cruz has improved tremendously since then and has dropped down a weight class, but even so, Aldo is reminiscent of a 2008 Anderson Silva right now, and I can’t bet against that fighter. It’s tougher for me to stick with Aldo against Edgar, but Edgar’s relative small size as a Lightweight wouldn’t pose a great problem to Aldo. Aldo presumably would maintain his quickness, which I think would be a huge advantage against Edgar and would held Aldo earn the victory.
Lawson: I would pick Aldo in both of those fights. He is incredibly fast and explosive. His hands are excellent and his ground game is top-notch. I just don’t see how either Cruz or Edgar would be able to handle that guy.
Loco: Tough to bet against Aldo at this point. He is on a killing spree, and he has the size to fit into 135, 45, and 55. I think that both Edgar and Cruz would give him trouble. Dominick is so unorthodox and quick, and he doesn’t get tired. Hell, Brock Lesnar would have fits with him. I like Cruz in that fight. As far as Edgar goes, I doubt that he would want to stand and trade with him. It’d be up to Edgar utilizing his wrestling and negating both Aldo’s standup and BJJ. I like Edgar. But that shouldn’t discourage Aldo from jumping weights, I wanna see these fights.
Kyte: Aldo, all day, in both cases. Right now, until someone stops him, I’m taking Aldo over anyone between 135-155, including BJ Penn, Frankie Edgar and any other UFC lightweight. The kid is a monster and has such an incredible skill set that it’s going to be hard for someone to stop him.
Brown: Full disclosure, I think Jose Aldo is probably the 3rd or 4th best pound for pound fighter in the sport. Therefore, I’d have him winning either of these fights. Further, I think he’d be a pretty big favorite in either fight too. He walked through Urijah and Urijah beat Cruz easily. Cruz has improved, but I don’t think he’s at a Jose Aldo level. Aldo’s the same size as Frankie Edgar, but a better striker and better BJJ. There’s a good chance I’d pick him to beat any 35, 45, or 55 pound fighter in the world right now. If Jose Aldo wants all three belts, I think he could have them.
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