Draymond Tells Shaq Why Kobe Isn’t in GOAT Debates

Getty Kobe shows his trademark intensity on the court in the NBA Finals.

Every NBA fan has an opinion on who the greatest of all time (GOAT) is. Some lean towards Michael Jordan, some say LeBron James, others point to Bill Russell. What we don’t see a lot of in those discussions is former Los Angeles Lakers legend Kobe Bryant, and Golden State Warriors forward Draymond Green believes he knows why.

On Shaquille O’Neal’s podcast “The Big Podcast,” Green talked about Kobe’s impact:

“Here’s why I think he’s not [in the conversation],” Green said. “Because, number one, he played with you and people hold that against him. Number two, I think Kobe kind of fell in a weird time. And what I mean by that is Mike (Michael Jordan) left the league. When Mike left the league, y’all were dominating. And then you left the Lakers. When you left the Lakers, they had a few rough years, it wasn’t great.

“… They didn’t have great roster. Rudy Tomjanovich, that was that was an epic fail, like it just wasn’t great. And while it wasn’t going great, there was a young guy in Cleveland starting to make his hay. And so, in the years where Kob could have been dominating, which he was from a number’s standpoint, but they weren’t winning. In those years, Bron [James] was making his hay and starting to make his name, and is he the best player.”

Draymond’s Point About Teammates

The argument that Kobe isn’t included in the GOAT argument because he played with Shaq is inherently flawed. There was a time when Bryant didn’t have a championship without Shaq, and former Lakers teammate Trevor Ariza said on Club Shay Chay that “it drove him (Kobe) to sleepless nights.”

To be clear, Draymond is talking about why he thinks Kobe isn’t in the discussion (he makes a point to say he should be).

Let’s not forget that Kobe was just 21 years old during the 1999-00 season, with Shaq in his absolute prime at 27. To penalize or otherwise denigrate what Kobe was doing because there was a more dominant player on the floor with him at the time is ludicrous.

Draymond’s Point About Timing

The timing argument holds a lot of water if the GOAT debate were happening in the early-to-mid-2000s. Jordan was still in the league until the 2002-03 season, finding ways to drop 51 points on poor David Wesley and the Charlotte Hornets.

Just as Jordan left, the Kobe/Shaq combination started to show signs of wear. Shaq had passed his prime and Kobe hadn’t yet entered his. Two playoff failures with Bryant as the leading man raised eyebrows, only exacerbated by a repugnant 2004-05 season that saw Bryant lead a rebuilding team to a 34-48 record.

LeBron rose through the ranks, making the NBA Finals in 2007 as a 22-year-old with a Cleveland Cavaliers team that inspired a cacophony of op-eds lamenting how poor the team was. If LeBron can do it, why can’t Kobe, right?

It wouldn’t be long until Bryant would emphatically end his streak of NBA Finals failure, with the Lakers winning in both 2009 and 2010. Still, the damage was done and in hindsight, we can see why Kobe’s stagnation and LeBron’s rise affected each other.

Kobe Isn’t the GOAT, but He Deserves Discussion

The metrics that people use to determine the best at something are usually rooted in statistics. Jordan supporters point towards his 6-for-6 NBA Finals record. LeBron fans note his combination of being the NBA’s All-Time leading scorer combined with his 10 Finals appearances (four wins) and continued excellence as he nears 40 years old.

What is the argument for Kobe? That’s the problem, it’s more subjective. Aside from Kobe’s five NBA Finals wins, a big part of his aura has to do with his killer instinct, his ability to single-handedly change the course of a game and his borderline psychotic need to win.

Kobe is remembered as an amazing scorer, but he was also a lockdown defender (12-time NBA All-Defense) and is lauded as being the only person whose competitive fire rivaled Jordan’s.

Despite a 42-minute-long clutch highlight video that points to the contrary, he’s also been lambasted for his decision-making. Henry Abbott of True Hoop quipped: “there’s no real reason to ignore 79 misses, broken plays, a shocking lack of passing, a coaching staff eager for more team play, and an elite team that gets below-par results with the game on the line.”

Is Kobe the GOAT? No, but he deserves mention in those conversations. Everyone can be picked apart, and it seems like Kobe gets it as much as anyone this side of LeBron. At the end of the day, he was a fierce competitor who played at an elite level on both ends of the court, he won five championships, and he’s forever remembered for making memorable plays in the biggest of games.