Brian Stann takes on Mike Massenzio at UFC on Versus 2 next Sunday. We sat down for a brief chat with the former Marine about his time in Iraq, his work with Hire Heroes USA, the Phil Davis fight and more.
You grew up around the military. Was there ever a chance that you would be anything but a professional soldier?
I don’t think so. I think it was just meant to be, and I really started realizing it early on in high school.
You were part of the one of the most famous military operations of the war front in Iraq. What memories from those six days will endure with you for the rest of your life?
You know, by far it was the individual actions of my Marines. The junior enlisted Marine is truly my hero. When people ask me who my heroes are, that’s who it is. My guys came from such a diverse background and overcame so much adversity. They just showed honor and commitment and courage under some of the most adverse conditions. And we’re talking about nineteen and twenty year old men. It was something that will inspire me until the day I die.
You were awarded the Silver Star for that operation. Does that moment stand as one of the proudest moments of your life?
Being honest — and this is really something that I reveal in my book — I don’t want to say this in a way that discredits the award. I had several Marines during that operation who were permanently injured. A young man by the name of Jonathan Lowell will never walk again. Another young man had multiple brain surgeries that will affect him for the rest of his life. It’s awkward for me to be awarded for something like that, because in all honesty, I think about those days often and wonder what I could have done differently to avoid some of those situations, to not have some of those men hurt. Luckily they weren’t killed, but there are still some very, very serious injuries that guys who were under my leadership are going to have to live with the rest of their lives.
Your story is used as a recruiting tool by Marine recruiters around the country. Do you feel like your part in that operation is your finished military legacy, or do you have more military experience to add once you are finished with mixed martial arts?
I don’t know if I see myself going back in just because of my commitment to my family. But I don’t feel like I’m ever done. I’m currently the executive director of an organization called Hire Heroes USA. We work with veterans every single day trying to help them transition and to find the right kind of employment once they are out of the military. I think I feel myself — when mixed martial arts is over — being pulled in some kind of leadership, whether it’s a public office or the community or a charity. I think that’s where my life is taking me. I don’t think I’ll ever be truly done with the military, but I’ll just take some kind of leadership position that has an influence over how the men and women that serve our country are treated or used.
Would you be a civilian contractor for the military?
No. Maybe more along the lines of Congress or as a Representative. Or maybe something along the lines of what I’m in now in the non-profit sector.
When I got out of the military, it was pretty tough to find a job. There were transition programs, but it seemed like it was easy to get lost in the shuffle and forgotten about. Many of my fellow soldiers had enough trouble finding good jobs that they simply re-enlisted. Your organization, Hire Heroes USA, looks to do something about that. Where did the idea for Hire Heroes come from?
I met a man by the name of John Barnes who is still very close to me today. He’s actually the CEO of a company that I work for and the Chairman of the Board for Hire Heroes USA. He started the organization. He’s been extraordinarily successful in life, and he feels that because of his success, he’s obligated to those who wear the uniform, because those are his heroes. He sought my out and asked me to take over this organization and lead it. It was something I jumped on, that I was very excited to be a part of. And I was actually part of the organization before I ever got out of the Marine Corps, when I was first fighting in the WEC. I was the spokesperson for them. So I’ve been with them for some time, and it’s just been an amazing opportunity.
That transition is very difficult. It takes a very personal approach and a lot of detail to help our veterans transition correctly.
You’ve got an autobiography coming out September 15 entitled Heart For The Fight. What inspired you to write a book?
Back when MMA first took off, when I got signed by the WEC and they were bought by Zuffa, my story was obviously exploited to build a brand and an organization. I was forced into doing interviews that I really wasn’t comfortable doing. I’m able to vaguely talk about my story and the things that happened in Iraq to try and positively influence the media on what’s going on and what our young men and women do overseas.
I think that was the inspiration for the book. It’s an opportunity for me to tell a story, to tell some of the stories about what my guys were able to accomplish, to talk about some of the positive things that come out of these young heroes. People can really understand that these are nineteen and twenty year old kids experiencing the most extreme theater this earth can provide, and these are some of their actions. This is how heroic they were and some of the great things they did.
The other part of my book…I’ve taken a lot of lumps. I’ve had some successes and I’ve had even more failures. I think that one of the themes of my life is to really learn from my failures. I’ve never wanted to hold my head down and give up and just be one of the normal people who doesn’t try to strive for greatness. Anyone who tries to reach goals that are hard to attain is going to fail. You’re going to fail in a high-profile way. And I think that finally, over the course of my thirty years on this planet, I’m learning how to fail correctly and how to take the most from my mistakes and turn them into successes.
I spent time in Iraq, and when I came home I found that it took a lot more to rattle me or to get on my nerves. The things that I used to consider a big deal no longer seemed to be big at all. Do you find that the things you experienced in Iraq help you deal with the mental side of stepping in a cage?
Absolutely. I think that sometimes my attitude about it either surprises or doesn’t sit right with other fighters. But to guys like me and you, it’s just an athletic competition. After my last fight that I lost, I had a lot of guys come up to me with these long faces saying “hey man, I’m really sorry.” People are afraid to talk to you after you lose because they know that you’re very upset. And I am upset. I’m very disappointed in my performance and very upset about it.
But my response to those people is “hey, I’ve seen worse days.” I’m able to put everything in perspective. I think a lot of people, no matter what their profession is, usually feel that if you did something bad in your profession, then now you’re a bad person. Just because you lose a fight, or maybe you get cut by the UFC…that doesn’t mean you’re a bad person. It just means that the other guy was better than you in whatever competition you had. Maybe it means you’re not that great at your job, but you’re still a great husband or mother or father or wife.
That’s the attitude I take into it. I’ve had days where I’ve had to speak to mothers and fathers whose sons I couldn’t bring home, and I’ve had to explain what happened. I had to tell them what I wish I could have done differently, that I wish their kid was still here. Those days are harder than any day I’m ever going to experience in the cage, no matter how bad the beating is.
I know Army combatives uses a lot of jiu-jitsu. How much influence did your military hand-to-hand combatives training experience have on your decision to begin training in mixed martial arts?
It was huge. The Marine Corps Martial Arts program is a great program. The instructors are very motivated, and they really focus a lot on the mental aspect and the character aspect. That’s really what intrigued me, because I wanted to know — as a young man who was about to go to Iraq — how I would respond to the mental challenges. Knowing that I’m going to have a fight in two months, that it’s going to happen. And then the day before the fight, seeing your opponent and walking into the cage. There is a lot of mental stresses that are involved with that. There’s a very small percentage of people that can actually go into a cage and fight. There are a lot of times at smaller shows where a guy will show up to weigh-ins but then won’t show up to a fight.
That really intrigued me. The Marine Corps really focuses a lot on our mental attitude and our martial culture. We pride ourselves in that, and that’s why we fight the way we do and why we overcome certain odds. It made me want to get into mixed martial arts, to learn more about myself. That’s really what this journey has been all about. With each fight I learn a little bit more about myself.
You mentioned that your story was somewhat exploited to build a brand. Were you happy about that or was it just something you went along with?
I didn’t really have a choice. I certainly had my fans and I had plenty of critics, but I never tried to pretend that I was anything that I’m not. I was a very raw mixed martial artist who trained himself because I didn’t have coaches at the time. My regimental commander at the time, a gentleman by the name of Colonel Love, talked to me about it. He said “listen, Brian, this is a good opportunity for you to use them and to exploit them right back, to talk about the positive things that are coming out of these conflicts overseas. Whether people agree with the war or not, I can use it as an opportunity to talk about these young men and women and the great things they do every day.
I remember having the opportunity to be on the Howard Stern show. I had no idea what he was going to ask me, but I forged my way into an opportunity to talk about what a day in the life of a Marine in Iraq is like. There was a very positive response to it. It increased their perspective. People don’t hear about that side of the story. They always watch Fox News or CNN and they hear about suicide bombers or someone dying, but they don’t get an awful lot of the real stories, the stories about a young kid from Indiana serving over there. They don’t get to see what kinds of men and women are serving in our Armed Forces.
Yeah, you don’t hear much about having to wake up at 5am and it’s already 120 degrees outside.
No, they don’t. And that goes hand in hand with what I’m doing with Hire Heroes. A lot of these employers, when they get a veteran in front of them to interview of they get a veteran’s resume, they are dealing with things they are unfamiliar with. It’s natural for people to stray away from that. Part of what we do is to try and recruit companies and familiarize them with the skillsets. We show them that they aren’t doing a charitable deed by hiring a veteran — you’re actually making an investment in a young man or women that has been infused with certain tangible skills that you can’t get out of college graduates.
Shifting to present day for a second — you faced Phil Davis back in February and lost a unanimous decision. What went wrong in that fight?
On a personal level, I think that in the first round, once he took me down, his base was incredible. I realized I couldn’t get up. Phil was known as a great rider in college, and that was exactly what he was doing to me. He has excellent top control. In the second and third rounds, I really concerned myself with what he was doing instead of my own offense, and that allowed him the advantage the rest of the way.
What went wrong overall? I got into a wrestling match with a four-time All American and national champion. I could have wrestled for ten years before that fight and there’s still no way I would have been able to out-wrestle him.
If I had a dollar for every person who asked me why I took the fight, I’d be a rich man. But I saw it as a true challenge. It was the perfect style to match up against my style because I knew it was the hardest challenge out there. I wanted to try it. Unfortunately, I was unsuccessful. Phil is an amazing athlete. He’s gonna beat a lot more guys like that, so I won’t be the only one.
Is the challenge that drives you?
Absolutely. I love this sport in its purest form. I love the strategy that goes behind it. I’ve only really been training for two years, so I’m still trying to acquire new skills. That’s a really fun challenge for me. It was never something that I said I wanted to do for a living. I always look at it as a journey. I’ve always maintained a full-time job because I have to. I have two children. I can’t afford to take a chance and then I get hurt, and suddenly I have nothing to fall back on. I’m not driven by the fame or any of that stuff. I don’t care about endorsement deals or if I’m on the undercard or the main card. It’s about the journey.
Learn more about Hire Heroes at http://hireheroes.org. You can follow Hire Heroes on Twitter @hireheroesusa.
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