Jimmie Johnson has addressed Riley Herbst’s failed attempt to retaliate against Michael McDowell at Phoenix Raceway, revealing that Matt Kenseth contacted him shortly after the crash.
The incident occurred during the Freeway Insurance 500 on October 18, reigniting tensions from an earlier crash at New Hampshire Motor Speedway in August. Herbst, who suffered a concussion in the earlier wreck, made contact with McDowell entering Turn 3 at Phoenix.
Both drivers spun and hit the wall. Johnson discussed the incident on Door Bumper Clear as Herbst prepares to join Legacy Motor Club in 2027.
The seven-time NASCAR Cup Series champion acknowledged Herbst’s talent but suggested the young driver still has lessons to learn, particularly when it comes to retaliation on the track.
Jimmie Johnson Addresses Riley Herbst’s Phoenix Crash
Johnson spoke about Herbst’s potential and the development work ahead of his move to Legacy Motor Club, where he will drive the No. 84 car in 2027.
“Yeah, he’s got a ton of talent. Still need to teach him a few things. But when you think about the reps he has, he’s just trying to get seat time. And we’re very excited to have him and look forward to building a great program around him.”
Johnson then discussed the risks of deliberately making contact with another driver.
“Crashing others isn’t for everyone. I was really bad at it and found myself caught up in all those wrecks too when I tried to spin somebody.”
Co-host Tommy Baldwin suggested Johnson speak with Kenseth, Legacy Motor Club’s competition advisor, about it. Johnson revealed that Kenseth had already reached out after watching the Phoenix incident.
“Oh, as soon as it happened, Kenseth texted me like, ‘We need to talk to him about it.”
Matt Kenseth Reacts as Jimmie Johnson Recalls His Own Payback Attempt
Johnson also shared a story about his failed attempt to retaliate against Kurt Busch at Richmond. After Busch spun him, Johnson returned to the garage with his damaged car and asked his crew chief, Chad Knaus, to repair it.
“And Knaus was like, ‘What’s up?’ I said, ‘Fix it.’ And he looks at me, and he goes, ‘If I fix it, you’ve got to do it right.’ I’m like, ‘I got you.’”
Johnson returned to the track and tried to hit Busch entering Turn 1 after positioning himself on the outside lane exiting Turn 4. But the move didn’t go as planned.
“And so as I go into turn one to dump him, I can hear Chad’s voice, and I’m like, I gotta hit him. And I just clipped like the right edge of his bumper, and he spins, and I pound the wall. After that, Chad’s like, ‘Never again.’ One chance. I’m not good at this. I’m over it.”
The story highlighted Johnson’s experience with retaliation and the risks drivers face when they try to settle scores during a race.
Riley Herbst Faces More Questions Ahead of His Legacy Motor Club Move
Herbst is preparing to leave 23XI Racing at the end of the 2026 season before joining Legacy Motor Club in 2027. The Phoenix crash has added attention to his final weeks with the team.
Denny Hamlin, a co-owner of 23XI Racing, also addressed the contact. He described the incident as not the brightest moment if Herbst acted intentionally, while acknowledging that other competitors have treated the driver aggressively.
Shane van Gisbergen, who was running behind Herbst and McDowell when the crash occurred, was also heard reacting with amusement over team radio.
Johnson’s comments suggest Legacy Motor Club sees the incident as an opportunity to help Herbst develop before he arrives. The August crash at New Hampshire and the October wreck at Phoenix have renewed debate about retaliation in NASCAR and whether drivers should attempt to settle previous disputes on the track.
With Johnson overseeing Herbst’s next chapter and Kenseth already calling for a conversation, the Phoenix incident is likely to become part of the driver’s preparation for the 2027 season.
NASCAR Cup Series Champion Addresses Riley Herbst’s Failed Phoenix Payback as Matt Kenseth Reacts